Why only hand to hand?

SHI
PLAYER

Nothing is true; everything is permitted.

Posts: 195
C-LEVEL: 6 (51)

Why only hand to hand? Jun 19, 2013 11:13:51 GMT -5

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Post by SHI on Jun 19, 2013 11:13:51 GMT -5

Jun 19, 2013 0:01:10 GMT -5 SALAZAR said:

PENDING

Hello, Zero. C: Let's get right down to business shall we? Everything is all fine. It's always awesome seeing an older character and Logan seems to be like a sweet grandparent acting as dad kind of guy. Hopefully that student will be found~ But back to the problem I found:

Sword Arts. As of now, Martial Arts only deals with hand-to-hand combat. So your Sword Arts will have to be changed.

It seems like a weird limitation, I even remember Kirito using a Sword Skill that included tackles.

The skeleton raised its shield to block the blow that it thought was going to come from above, but I went against its expectations and rammed it with my left shoulder. Then I sent a vertical swing at the swaying skeleton, and without pause I rammed it again, with my right shoulder this time. It was a skill that overcame the problem of chaining strong attacks together by combining them with tackles: «Meteor Break». Not meaning to brag, but it was a skill that required unarmed-fighting skills as well as one-handed sword skills.

SAO Volume 1

For the use of martial weapons such as knuckledusters, hand wrappings, and bo staffs. Martial Arts can be a powerful and speedy skill, but relies a lot upon the inner strength of the player and requires the player to be at risk to take more damage.

Nothing in the skill description says anything about that limitation either. It also limits what types of Martial Arts a player could use. I have also used kicks, elbow strikes, knee strikes, etc. in my Martial Arts attacks in quests and have never been penalized for them-albeit as normal attacks. So why the sudden limitation?

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Savvy
GAMEMASTER

[M:0]

Posts: 9

Why only hand to hand? Jun 19, 2013 13:16:04 GMT -5

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Post by Savvy on Jun 19, 2013 13:16:04 GMT -5

Nothing in the skill description says anything about players being able to use kicks, elbow strikes, knee strikes, etc. The skill merely enables players the use of martial arts weapons. The passage you cite pertains to <<Martial Arts>> that is an extra skill. This allows for users to perform hand to hand combat moves. Unfortunately, because of the name of the skill, players here have misinterpreted the use of Martial Arts. I believe other weapon skills do not say anything about the limitation of hands and feet. Should One-Handed Sword users then be able to punch with their offhand? I think not.

Punches and kicks are still allowed but they do negligible damage (meaning nearly nothing or nothing) with no skill supporting their functionality. The staff is looking into the implementation of an extra skill to allow players to make their hand to hand combat techniques a viable source of damage. The staff also looks forward to enforcing the rules of Martial Arts as the perception of our playerbase has gotten a tad out of hand. Players unsatisfied with the skill will be able to reset it come next patch.

Also, just to be clear, the limitation was not sudden. It was always there. It is just players loop holing a skill because of its title and the staff is now choosing to enforce it.

SHI
PLAYER

Nothing is true; everything is permitted.

Posts: 195
C-LEVEL: 6 (51)

Why only hand to hand? Jun 19, 2013 17:17:46 GMT -5

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Post by SHI on Jun 19, 2013 17:17:46 GMT -5

Would the extra skill require Martial Arts then? Or would it be a stand alone skill? Also why does such a limitation exist in the first place? The limitation, even if it wasn't sudden (the validity of it not being sudden is also something I suspect but won't push on), doesn't exactly make sense. Is there some sort of mechanical balance reason for such a limitation? After all, the very name Martial Arts suggest the ability to recreate real life Martial Arts to emphasize the free movement granted by the nature of the setting as a VRMMORPG. Wouldn't calling it Hand to Hand be a better name if it really is only limited to hand to hand attacks and name the Extra Skill Martial Arts to make it fit closer to canon since it seems like the extra skill is what the appears to be what was original perceived of Martial Arts. Also what about bow staff users as that isn't exactly hand to hand but is part of the martial arts skill.

If this has anything to do with how some people may think that a kick would constitute as a form of dual wielding, then please think carefully about the practicality of performing a punch and a kick at the same time. Furthermore, the real advantage of the Dual Blades skill is the ability to use two different weapons at the same time. Already combining a something like say a sword and martial arts would have the martial arts attack do reduced damage as stated here. Also if using a hand and feet counts as dual wielding, wouldn't the use of both fists count as dual wielding as well? Martial Arts doesn't exactly fit the norm when it comes to dual wielding. Wouldn't how I can lock blades with another person and still have a free hand to use Surgical Strike constitute as dual wielding despite the limitations set on it reducing the damage potential (of which Martial Arts already had a low output per hit) and placing it into more a utility usage? When people think of dual wielding they think of someone using a weapon in each hand like one sword in each hand for example. They allow for faster attacks in succession than using a kick after a weapon attack due to realistic limitations.

Limiting Martial Arts to just the hands would limit the players from accessing a number of real life Martial Arts techniques, and if the reason is because kicking could somehow constitute as a form of dual wielding, it is a rather picky reason that doesn't exactly justify the limitation and only reduces the possibilities and creativity.

Furthermore, the real power in dual blades wasn't really the ability to use two weapons. Neeka and Bal, the original creators of the system we currently use, once made a set of unique skills--one of those skills was Dual Wielding. The real power didn't come from the ability to use a second weapon but rather how it doubled the number of strikes. If you look at canon Dual Blades sword skills, they have a rather high number of strikes. In addition, the anime had the skill give passive bonuses, of course that is the anime and I am unsure if the Light Novels gave the same bonuses. However, the large number of strikes the dual blades sword skills had were their real power (ALO's dual wielding is rather different due to the nature of ALO being a bit different than the nature of SAO).

Last Edit: Jun 19, 2013 18:22:53 GMT -5 by SHI

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