PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD!

Savvy
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PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 8, 2013 23:08:12 GMT -5

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Post by Savvy on Apr 8, 2013 23:08:12 GMT -5

Hello, hello!

I'm sure we are all very happy the new patch came out. You're probably also thinking "Wow! That was really fast!" Indeed it was! We're not done yet however! I can personally reassure you your staff is working furiously on the next patch as of the posting of this thread! Of course, they're working on fixing up all your e-levels and c-levels but then we're working on the next patch!

So feel free to discuss the current patch here. This is discussion. Questions and concerns still need to be written up as support tickets.

In addition to discussing the recent patch, feel free to make suggestions for the future patch, or to discuss possibilities of the new patch! What I can promise you will see in the next patch is as follows:

SMITHING EFFECTS!: That's right, with the c-levels of weapons changed, we will now be working on allowing smiths to essentially "enchant" your weapons with effects. The effects will vary! Stay tuned for more updates

WEAPON EFFECTS!

[/li][li]SPECIALIZATION
[/li][li]DEBILITATION
[/li][li]SHARPNESS
[/li][li]DEFENSE PENETRATION
[/li][li]ELEGANCE[/quote]

ARMOR EFFECTS!

[/li][li]AUXILIARY
[/li][li]RESISTANCE
[/li][li]DURABLE
[/li][li]SPECIAL
[/li][li]REINFORCEMENT[/quote]

Salivate over the names of the effects I've released! You may also discuss and try to predict what each one does. Who knows, my tongue might slip?

EVENT QUESTS!: These will be hosted by your staff! We are still working out the specifics of it and honestly would like to see a bigger playerbase before we start hosting these events. Let me assure you, these events will be frequent. VERY frequent.

SKILL TWEAKS!: Your staff is working hard on tweaking some of the skills currently available as well as potentially adding in new ones! Feel free to suggest skills you would like to see added in the future in this thread.

SWORD ART REVISIONS!: Fear not, none of the percentages will be changed. The only thing staff is looking into is the special effects you can add onto your sword arts. We want to be more clear about what each effect can do.

For now, these are the teasers you'll have to live with! As you people discuss, expect me to chime in and give my own thoughts as well as revealing new information.

If you haven't seen the latest patch notes they can be found HERE

Last Edit: Apr 16, 2013 22:18:19 GMT -5 by Savvy

grackis MISSING IN ACTION 3 (20)[M:1050] fighting for you down the bloody road to war Posts: 79	PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 8, 2013 23:41:16 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by grackis on Apr 8, 2013 23:41:16 GMT -5 I better be able to get "piercing" or "sharpness". All other elemental BS is worthless to me. I MUST CLEAVE HEADS!
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AZUSA
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PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 9, 2013 6:38:14 GMT -5

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Post by AZUSA on Apr 9, 2013 6:38:14 GMT -5

I choose Armoursmithing as Specialization. With the old system it would have made a sense, but with the new one, I am not sure anymore.

Will the costs of smithing be modified? Like e-level 1-2 and e-level 3-4? Because I would need to craft some new gear soon to advance to floor 2.

Last Edit: Apr 9, 2013 6:41:51 GMT -5 by AZUSA

Savvy
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PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 9, 2013 12:56:50 GMT -5

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Post by Savvy on Apr 9, 2013 12:56:50 GMT -5

Apr 8, 2013 23:41:16 GMT -5 grackis said:

I better be able to get "piercing" or "sharpness". All other elemental BS is worthless to me. I MUST CLEAVE HEADS!

You're gonna have to be clear by what you mean by 'piercing' and 'sharpness' but.... Do not worry. There will most likely be bonuses to passively increase your weapon skills adding more passive damage (sharpness) and possibly an armor ignoring enchantment (piercing). Although an armor ignoring enchantment will be hard to balance, we will look into it.

Apr 9, 2013 6:38:14 GMT -5 AZUSA said:

I choose Armoursmithing as Specialization. With the old system it would have made a sense, but with the new one, I am not sure anymore.

Will the costs of smithing be modified? Like e-level 1-2 and e-level 3-4? Because I would need to craft some new gear soon to advance to floor 2.

Actually, armor smithing as a specialization gives you a GREAT advantage. Or it will. The way the new smithing system is going to work is that at skill level 30 you can make an e-level weapon 3. Skill levels of 31-39 in weaponsmithing will allow you to add bonuses to an e-level 3 weapon. So the only way to have a weapon of your e-level with bonuses is to specialize. Of course these bonuses will be miniscule at first but as the game progresses their effects will become very noticeable.

grackis MISSING IN ACTION 3 (20)[M:1050] fighting for you down the bloody road to war Posts: 79	PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 9, 2013 16:59:41 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by grackis on Apr 9, 2013 16:59:41 GMT -5 I'm going to be honest here. This all sounds convoluted and more confusing than the current system.
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Savvy
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PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 10, 2013 20:49:02 GMT -5

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Post by Savvy on Apr 10, 2013 20:49:02 GMT -5

Apr 9, 2013 16:59:41 GMT -5 grackis said:

I'm going to be honest here. This all sounds convoluted and more confusing than the current system.

It's all quite elementary my dear ~~Watson~~ Grackis.While it would help if you cleared up what you were confused about, I'll just take the liberty of providing an example.

Let's say our friend, we'll call him Grackis, wants an e-level 3 sword with an effect. The smith he goes to must have a weapon smithing skill of 30+. You need at least 30 to make an e-level 3 sword. You need higher than 30 to add effects.

Depending on the effects, a smith will need either level 31, 33, 35, 37, or 39 in weapon smithing to add an effect to an e-level 3 weapon. It's the same pattern for all levels of weapons.

So an e-level 6 weapon requires 60 weapon smithing to create and 60+ to enhance.

As one might have guessed based on the example above, we will be releasing 5 enhancements in the patch. Whoops. Silly me for spilling the beans.

grackis MISSING IN ACTION 3 (20)[M:1050] fighting for you down the bloody road to war Posts: 79	PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 10, 2013 23:19:47 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by grackis on Apr 10, 2013 23:19:47 GMT -5 So... every 10 smithing levels they can create the next E-level group of weapons? And why are we changing weapon and Armor E-levels?
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Savvy
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PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 11, 2013 1:03:39 GMT -5

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Post by Savvy on Apr 11, 2013 1:03:39 GMT -5

Apr 10, 2013 23:19:47 GMT -5 grackis said:

So... every 10 smithing levels they can create the next E-level group of weapons?

Indeed. Not too complex, is it?

Apr 10, 2013 23:19:47 GMT -5 grackis said:

And why are we changing weapon and Armor E-levels?

Hmm, all these questions makes one think that somebody neglected to read the patch notes. However! As your staff, it is my duty to give you the benefit of the doubt and hold the utmost faith in our members.

I believe a quaint explanation was given. Here's an excerpt:

The old c-level system punished players for leveling a skill that is neither a weapon or armor skill. Leveling a skill should never punish a player but only grant bonuses. By leveling a skill other than armor or weapon skill, a player was effectively limiting their ability to progress through the game.

SHI PLAYER Nothing is true; everything is permitted. Posts: 195 C-LEVEL: 6 (51)	PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 11, 2013 1:22:55 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by SHI on Apr 11, 2013 1:22:55 GMT -5 So how exactly did it punish players? I thought Patch Notes 1.01 made it clear that c-levels were not everything.
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Savvy
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PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 11, 2013 3:29:58 GMT -5

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Post by Savvy on Apr 11, 2013 3:29:58 GMT -5

Apr 11, 2013 1:22:55 GMT -5 SHI said:

So how exactly did it punish players? I thought Patch Notes 1.01 made it clear that c-levels were not everything.

We've implemented min-max c-levels now. Before, a level 1 could technically go to floor 4 and spawn a c-level 1 monster and fight it. To prevent that sort of thing from happening we installed c-level ranges for floors.

A player stood to gain the most by increasing their weapon and armor skill level because it A.) gave you a passive damage boost/damage reduction and B.) raised the hard cap on your c-level. Now that we've implemented a c-level minimum for each floor's monsters, not leveling a combat skill effectively limited a character's RP'ing potential because they may not rp in a certain area due to their focus on something other than c-level.

Here's an example:
Let's say a level 3's weapon is 40 and armor 28 so at maxed he would have 40+(28x8)=264

A level 4's weapon is 25 and armor 23 so at maxed he would have 25+(23x8)=209

This could mean at a certain point, where the min c-level of mobs is 250, the level 3 could quest there but not the level 4. The level 4 could have invested in his combat skills but because he did not, he is being punished. Now now, I know what you want to argue. It's his fault for not leveling up his combat skills. Well what if that person was the only reliable smith on the site? Why should he be punished for going a route that is totally necessary to the site?

Also, by making it so that the e-level of the equipment you can equip dependent upon your level rather than skill makes us closer to canon I believe. Refer to this

It says 'Requires: 61'. I think it would be pretty safe to assume that means it requires level 61 to wield.

Last Edit: Apr 11, 2013 3:32:27 GMT -5 by Savvy

grackis
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PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 11, 2013 7:20:41 GMT -5

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Post by grackis on Apr 11, 2013 7:20:41 GMT -5

You're right savvy, I didn't read the patch notes mainly because they were only out 3 days and this E-Level junk came up.

This could mean at a certain point, where the min c-level of mobs is 250, the level 3 could quest there but not the level 4. The level 4 could have invested in his combat skills but because he did not, he is being punished. Now now, I know what you want to argue. It's his fault for not leveling up his combat skills. Well what if that person was the only reliable smith on the site? Why should he be punished for going a route that is totally necessary to the site?

So basically what I'm getting from this is you guys want EVERYONE to be able to fight. Which essentially means that true fighter types like myself get nothing. I started the proposal of a merc business for IC character development because I knew there were other player who didn't have high ranked combat stats. I have stats like that so i figured mutual relationship. They get a chance to farm high level mobs while I do most of the killing work. But by this patch you've basically made it pointless. Why would anyone bother hiring me if the system makes their low combat scores still viable?

So they can't advance as quickly as the rest of us. That's the result of their choice. I had a smithing skill. I still have it. But I ditched it down to 1 point because I had no need for it as a tank and as soon as we get something worth investing to skill change request in Ill get rid of it entirely to be a truly combat focused character.

Also, by making it so that the e-level of the equipment you can equip dependent upon your level rather than skill makes us closer to canon I believe. Refer to this

It says 'Requires: 61'. I think it would be pretty safe to assume that means it requires level 61 to wield.

So basically what you're saying is that even though I have one of the highest sword and armor skills in the game I can't equip anything beyond the level of 3? That hardly seems fair. I sank points so i could maintain a firm grasp on combat effectiveness. Now it seems like I'm being told "You put all your points in that but unfortunately you can't use a weapon suitable for that level of skill because you're too low in character level."

This is where Stats would make things so much easier. Make things require a certain amount of points in STR or whatever to use it.

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kyle
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PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 11, 2013 7:48:15 GMT -5

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Post by kyle on Apr 11, 2013 7:48:15 GMT -5

This is where Stats would make things so much easier. Make things require a certain amount of points in STR or whatever to use it.

No it wouldn't!

In every normal MMO stronger weapons are always bound to a higher lvl (while you are in the level phase)

So better weapons gives you better stats, but requiers a higher level. In this regard the new system is as accurate as it can be to SAO and other MMO's. It does not help you when u have enough money to buy the best sword from the auction house or someone, if u don't have the level for it. I hope this is clear

For the specializing in battle skills:

You still have an advantage against other players if u skill them, because u get passive bonuses. And still it will be hard for crafter to get to the higher floors without the help from frontliners. I take Azusa as example. She focused in Armor and Weapon smithing. Although her battle skills are rather low. She will have more problems with mobs on a higher floor than someone who specialized into combat more. (Well here he apell on the mind of the player to write it that way....)

grackis
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PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 12, 2013 7:22:49 GMT -5

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Post by grackis on Apr 12, 2013 7:22:49 GMT -5

So better weapons gives you better stats, but requiers a higher level. In this regard the new system is as accurate as it can be to SAO and other MMO's. It does not help you when u have enough money to buy the best sword from the auction house or someone, if u don't have the level for it. I hope this is clear

Yeah, but this isn't an MMO or a videogame. This is a text based rpg. And while yes this get us closer to having that feel it also makes things all the more complicated. Far more complicated than having stat requirements.

The stats I'd have used would have been the following:
Vitality(health):
Str(obv)
Dex(How skilled you are with it. Applies to multiple weapons use)
Endurance(How many attacks you can launch before you run out of juice for that post. Would also determine other actions like blocking. etc.)

Now I won't sit here and explain how they'd all work because frankly it'd be a waste of my time as none of you seem interested in stats. But I will say.....

Having weapons determine your stats and what not is utter bullshit. My "skill level" gives me I believe, unless someone found a way around it, the highest weapon skill on the site currently. BUT because I'm a level 3 I can't actually make use of it. So I'm stuck dicking around with a weapon of lower power because my levels not high enough. See what I'm saying? Even though I have a high skill level I can't actually make use of it because level requirements just goes and screws me out of a good weapon.

Whatever, I don't care anymore. You all will do what you want and I'll either find a way to get around it or I'll sit and wait for you to make another patch.

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ARCELIA
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PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 12, 2013 12:55:57 GMT -5

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Post by ARCELIA on Apr 12, 2013 12:55:57 GMT -5

The "this isn't an MMO/videogame" discussion has been brought up many, many times before. I think of that every time I have a looksee over our present system compared to freeform and I start wishing we could get rid of the numbers system almost completely.

Some things are honestly hard to maintain on a text-based RPG when the actual SAO game is well...an MMO. Not everything can be canon or fit exactly to the game as a result.

Like you mentioned, I really am not interested in stats. :/ It might be because it seems more complicated than what we presently have, though. I could be wrong, but I'm hoping to shy away from getting into more and more numbers in the future and focus more on the roleplaying experience than the statistics. It's always a possibility and you could message it to me, though.

As for your weapon and the character level, I totally understand. It was a concern of mine when this new system was brought up. Although our present e-level system does make it easier for us to maintain, I did mention that some people ARE supposed to be ahead of the game compared to others. Some people may not pool all of their points into fighting and instead prefer to put more points into armor or their crafting or even some other skill. It's how all games really work.

Keeping that in mind, I think it's easily possible to find a way to allow skill specialization to be an exception. For example, if you have a skill specialization in a type of armor or a weapon, perhaps you can have one of those equips be a level or two higher compared to the character level rule. As an example, for you, since you chose a specialization in your sword...you could equip a weapon that is one level higher than your own character level. Granted, that would probably be the only exception but I'll bring the issue up with staff when I get home (at work with no way to access cbox/skype now) and see about working something out and what our options are.

EDIT:

Also keep in mind that the skill level of your sword still gives you an upperhand in battle, so even if you're the same character level/e-level as someone else...the one with the higher skill level in offense usually comes out as the stronger player in the offensive category and can do more damage.

Last Edit: Apr 12, 2013 13:13:10 GMT -5 by ARCELIA

SHI
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PATCH DISCUSSION THREAD! Apr 12, 2013 21:32:32 GMT -5

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Post by SHI on Apr 12, 2013 21:32:32 GMT -5

My current main issue with the current patch notes is how it effectively stops all but about three members from role-playing on anything but the first floor unless they are with one of those three members. This feels more limiting than the system that "punished" people for not adding skill points into their weapon and armor skills. As for stats, as it would be quite possible to create a very concrete system (heck I even found code to integrate a, what I think is, non-abusable dice feature), I feel that it would turn a number of people off as a math heavy system seems unpleasant to a large number of people.

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